Where to Buy Soda Ash for Well Water

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1. 

   toozie21 New Member

   Joined:

   May 14, 2012

   Location:

   MD

   I have a well in the house I've been in for 7 years. When I first bought the place, I had Culligan out (since their sticker was on the equipment) to give me a lesson. I have both salt and soda ash on a whole house setup (the soda ash is for radium in the ground water). He mentioned that it would be cheaper in the future to get my soda ash from a pool store (I need 28 pounds for my tank), so I've been doing that ever since. While doing so research to see if I can do better than the $70/50lbs I am currently paying, I was reading that you shouldn't use the stuff from the pool store since it isn't consumable grade (yikes).

   So where do you guys get your soda ash in bulk?

   Thanks!

2. I've never heard of "soda ash is for radium" but any water treatment dealer can get you soda ash in like 50 or 100 lb bags. Soda ash is usually (only) used to correct pH.

4. 

   toozie21 New Member

   Joined:

   May 14, 2012

   Location:

   MD

   From what I understand (which isn't much), it is the water softening that helps. (one example: http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/radium.htm)

   <<edit>>
   Shoot, you've got me thinking now. Maybe my Solar Salt tank is helping with the radium, and the soda ash is to compensate (because the pH is fine coming straight from the well, so it isn't that).

5. Describe your equipment and where/how you use soda ash, or post pictures of the equipment.

7. So I guess you guess he is doing all that in the article before the mention of soda ash (I missed where he said anything to make anyone think he was...) and then, then using the soda ash to (from your link) "Soda ash (Na2CO3) can then be added to remove non-carbonate hardness, in a process known as second stage softening, which is prior to filtration as well.". I don't think your link shows the use of soda ash to remove radium, but correct me by copying and then pasting here what in that article that makes you think it is.

8. From his post I guess that he is using the softener for hardness and has a soda ash filter for the radium. Soda ash softening is possible and used, although not very often.

9. This is just another incorrect guess of many you're making while pretending to know water treatment.

   I've never heard of a soda ash filter so please direct me to one anywhere on the internet that is used for residential water treatment use for radium or anything else. Or... one on any Culligan or their dealers' web sites.

10. Lime Softening
    Lime softening is often used to reduce the hardness of water and sometimes to enhance clarification prior to filtration. Hardness is the sum of all multivalent ions, which for typical water treatment applications are mainly of calcium and magnesium. Water is considered to be hard if it contains 150 mg/L as CaCO3 or more [1].
    1.0 Applicable Contaminants
    Lime Softening is an EPA BAT for the following contaminants arsenic, barium, beryllium, chromium (for Cr III only), copper, fluoride, lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel, and radionuclides.

    You need to get out more lol

    Note the words " not very often " in my previous post. Care to tell us why it is not very often used? Lol

    Now lets get down to what is probably going on. The softener ( ion exchange/sodium ) will remove up to 96% of radium 226 all by itself. The soda ash is most likely being used to control the PH. The OP didn't post his water conditions so we don't know if the softener is only there to treat radium, hard water or most likely both.

    And...yes, filter was a poor choice of words. Tank, treatment, injection, pick your favorite word but I'm fairly sure most normal folks reading will get the picture.

11. You need to read and comprehend the article from where you stopped quoting it down to where it starts talking about "soda ash". There is much more to 'lime softening than simply running water through soda ash or adding some soda ash. Especially in a residential application.

    Here it is:
    **************
    2.0 Description of Technology

    The origin of lime softening dates back to 1841 when lime was added to Thames River water to reduce bicarbonate hardness by precipitation of calcium alkalinity as calcium carbonate and magnesium alkalinity as magnesium hydroxide. Modern day lime softening, referred to as the cold lime process, operates under the same principle.

    The softening process typically includes pretreatment, softening, recarbonation, and filtration steps.

    Pretreatment Pretreatment consists of either aeration or presedimentation. Aeration is necessary with waters that have high CO2 concentrations, such as ground water. Presedimentation is used with very turbid surface waters, in order to create a more consistent feed water quality.

    Technology Description

    In the softening step, the first chemical addition is quick lime, or CaO, which combines with H2O to form calcium hydroxide, or Ca(OH)2. The calcium in the water then reacts with CO2 to form a calcium carbonate (CaCO3) precipitate. The optimum pH for this process is about 10.3. Magnesium precipitation in the form of magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, requires a pH of 11.0 to 11.3. This pH can be obtained by using additional lime.

    Solids contact clarifiers combine mixing, flocculation and sedimentation in a single basin and are commonly used for lime softening. Raw water and chemicals mix with previously formed lime slurry in a centrally located draft tube with impeller. Quick lime is usually in the form of pebbles, which need to be slaked with mixing equipment. Slaking creates a mixture of 2 parts water and 1 part lime slurry in a separate facility, which is then fed to the solids contact clarifier along with the addition of a coagulant. The coagulant could be iron based (ferric sulfate, ferrous sulfate) or aluminum based (aluminum sulfate or sodium aluminate). Sodium aluminate is the preferred coagulant if the feed water contains high sulfate concentrations. The water depths in solids contact clarifiers usually range from 14 to 19 ft, and contact time is typically 15 to 30 min. Surface loading rates typically range from 1.0 to 1.75 gpm/ft2. If coagulation for turbidity removal is required the surface loading rate is usually on the lower end of this range.

    The water then passes through distinct zones within the basin for reaction, flocculation and clarification. Clarified water is collected in radial effluent launders which direct the flow to an effluent discharge pipe. Solids in the clarification zone settle to the bottom of the basin and are moved to the center by a rotating sludge rake.

    Effluent pH from the lime softening process is around 10 to 11. A pH adjustment is required to reduce the pH to around 8. The pH adjustment is particularly important when using MF membranes since high pH water may induce scaling on membrane surfaces. The pH adjustment is performed by injecting sulfuric or hydrochloric acid into the effluent stream with a metering pump. Sulfuric acid is preferred over hydrochloric due to the lower dosages and costs required.
    
    Soda ash (Na2CO3) can then be added to remove non-carbonate hardness, in a process known as second stage softening, which is prior to filtration as well.
    **************

    I doubt he is doing any of that before using soda ash. Also, I doubt he is using any sulfuric and/or hydrochloric acid.

12. Indeed there is. Note please that twice I said that though possible, it's not a very common practice. Also note that I said the soda ash is most likely being used for PH. But, I will admit that perhaps there was no reason to bring the whole process up In The first place other than to point out that it can be done.

13. 

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Joined:

    Mar 30, 2011

    Occupation:

    Rocket Scientist

    Location:

    Houston, TX

14. Hey... A useful post, thanks Don LOL

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Where to Buy Soda Ash for Well Water

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